Rendering for profit

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noderaser
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Message 5773 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 6:56:18 UTC

Sounds like a separate project would be the way to go, using BURP technology when it\'s at a \"release\" stage. Although, it might be useful to have some funds in the developmental stage. Is there perhaps a school or college that you could partner with, for funding (or perhaps hosting) in exchange for render time on school projects? That might be an acceptable medium for those opposed to running purely commercial renders.
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Message 5775 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 11:15:20 UTC - in response to Message 5769.  

I am shocked about the opinions about the profit rendering. I hope, that Janus can say more about this topic, and how it would be handeled.

As you stated, these are personal opinions. Every one of us is an individual and can have his own opinion. BUT this has nothing to do with the state of BURP itself. Janus is the one to set the rules. If 90% of us users would say, it\'s ok to render commercial animated videos and he says no, it will be no.
Nothing is set yet.

There is more to consider than just the users who crunches. What about the mirrors, the traffic it generates, etc, etc?
Dividing the ones which giave the ok to crunch for commercial and the ones which don\'t is a very heavy task. I don\'t think that this would be anything to come to question before BURP went live for several month.


In the meantime, I will set my clients to now new work, and stop my porting help for different Unixes. The existing binaries are still downloadable.
As I have stated, I would not spend my free time for a project which could use this for making profit in some time.

Your help and porting of the clients are very welcome. You\'re doing a great job.
It\'s a pity to see that you are stopping your support only because some people state that they would have nothing against commercial render if BURP gets some of the profit it generates and has to be noted officially in (at the end of) the animation.
That statement does not say BURP has to support commercial renderings. Only that for them (like me) it would be ok, if this project would support commercial animations.

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Message 5783 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 7:35:35 UTC

I dont think, tkat some comercional project would want to render on burp. As it was mentioned somewhere on the foroum, the film would be on public before final version. The blender file would be probably wery big. etc.

Only profit/commercional rendering on burp is probably some advertisment. An that it easyer to render on some studios server. Imho no comercional project will come. (buth it yes, i would render also comercional wu\'s, while the burp will get his orifit from it. (publiciti wont be enough))

PS: Sory for my english, its too soon for me :-) (9:35)
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Message 5864 - Posted: 23 May 2007, 5:15:36 UTC

If people are using BURP for commercial purposes, wouldn\'t they have to put in just as much time as they take out? In other words, the only net effect would be to speed up the system for the rest of the users. It doesn\'t have to be programmed this way, but if it was, we wouldn\'t be subsidizing commercial efforts -- we\'d just be crunching for commercial users in return for the use of their computers when their computers would otherwise be idle.
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Message 5866 - Posted: 23 May 2007, 5:21:31 UTC

Has the credit requirement been waived for the Alpha phase, or is it not implemented yet? I\'ve noticed people with zero credit have been submitting sessions for render.
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Message 5868 - Posted: 23 May 2007, 5:54:57 UTC - in response to Message 5866.  

Has the credit requirement been waived for the Alpha phase, or is it not implemented yet? I\'ve noticed people with zero credit have been submitting sessions for render.

Not implemented for alpha, but should be activated for beta if I remeber correctly.
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Message 5875 - Posted: 23 May 2007, 23:00:58 UTC

What are the intended credit requirements, or have those not been written yet? Seems to me that it might be an OK idea to leave that feature off, until there are people submitting sessions more regularly.
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Message 5917 - Posted: 29 May 2007, 2:58:39 UTC

Two things here:

1) Commercial studios probably won\'t be using Blender anyways. The would probably be using 3DS Max, Maya or SoftImage|XGI, so pressing the point of using BURP for commericial renders is a very small problem.

2) If commercial studios want to use Blender for their movies, more power to them. Let them use BURP, but require them to pay royalties or include the project in their credit (perhaps create some kind of animated logo for the project that would be shown at the beginning of the movie with all the studio logos?). If they are not using Blender, there are other commercial rendering options available (google it...you\'ll find something)


Just my $0.02

-Cameron
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Message 5918 - Posted: 29 May 2007, 5:03:23 UTC

I think it would be cool if there were more \"open source\" movies, like \"Elephant\'s Dream\" that was co-produced by the Blender team. I doubt anyone would have a problem with rendering that kind of animation!

At any rate, I think a lot of \"serious\" renderers are going to wait until the project is in a more finalized state. Can you imagine how long it would take to render a film, with some of the issues that have yet to be addressed?
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Message 6080 - Posted: 13 Jun 2007, 21:31:09 UTC - in response to Message 5918.  

[quote]I think it would be cool if there were more \"open source\" movies, like \"Elephant\'s Dream\" that was co-produced by the Blender team. I doubt anyone would have a problem with rendering that kind of animation!

Yes I would like to participete to the rendering of an image, or a part of it.commercials movies, ....mmmmmm
why not make ours movie here and now?
organisation will be the problem....
profits will be held by a fondation...
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Message 6086 - Posted: 14 Jun 2007, 5:29:54 UTC

It took a well-organized team 8 months to make Elephant\'s Dream... I think the best chance of seeing BURP onscreen would be to offer our rendering services to a project that\'s already in the works, and has support.

Although I mean no offense to any of the artists here, we\'re a little ways off from making movie-quality stuff, based on the sessions already rendered.
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Message 6093 - Posted: 15 Jun 2007, 7:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 5769.  

I am shocked about the opinions about the profit rendering. I hope, that Janus can say more about this topic, and how it would be handeled.
In the meantime, I will set my clients to now new work, and stop my porting help for different Unixes. The existing binaires are still downloadable.
As I have stated, I would not spend my free time for a project which could use this for making profit in some time.

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Message 6118 - Posted: 18 Jun 2007, 11:45:12 UTC - in response to Message 6093.  
Last modified: 18 Jun 2007, 11:48:47 UTC

As I have stated, I would not spend my free time for a project which could use this for making profit in some time.

First of all I have to once again point out that we are talking about allowing people to make money of the output of the rendered sessions. We are not talking about the project making money... Since BURP requires session output to be visible on the webpage this would dramatically limit the number of artists that would ever use this kind of feature.

Secondly I have to agree with AndyK on the management aspect of this. It may very well be much simpler to disallow commercial rendering completely on BURP and have some other project pick up on that instead (possibly even run by a different set of people).

Thirdly, as pointed out before, there will be no final decisions made on this topic before beta, since a lot of it really depends on whatever licenses will be negotiated with the supported renderers at that time.

I think this thread has brought forth a lot of valid points for and against the idea (which is exactly the point in having a healthy discussion) - rest assured that all of these (and possibly many more) will be taken into account before any decisions are made.
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Message 6123 - Posted: 19 Jun 2007, 4:10:19 UTC

This whole thing could be solved with a small tick box in the pref\'s page asking if you would like to render for profit.

Just mark the comercial sessions when their entered, and if you dont have the option, you wont get the WU.

Easy (I hope).

Just my $0.02
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Message 6311 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 16:36:18 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jul 2007, 16:43:37 UTC

So here is an option that has not been mentioned to date:

Because BURP is about community and accepting money makes things significantly more complicated, the project could press for any commercial type activities to donate back to the project over time.

For example: If a company needs render services and uses BURP, then they would be expected to participate in BURP while they are rendering, possibly agree to be a mirror host, and then fundamentally agree to continue to render for BURP using their resources until they have paid back their balance.

In this way, they give back to the community. BURP becomes a way for a larger community to use CPU cycles for the community, and then leverage the distributed power of the community to get back the value of those cycles when they need them.

In other words, all are welcome in the community, but everyone is expected to contribute. There are no taxes if some movie wants to donate CPU cycles to the BURP project.

I do like the idea of allowing the clients to choose what to render.

Having some large, complicated projects in the queue allows for the horsepower of BURP to be utilized fully. If that use encourages companies to give back to the community and submit that their work can be seen by the world just like ours is, then I personally have no problem with it.

Maybe it takes me a year to develop a good personal demo real, and I want to use BURP to render it with all of the credits I\'ve earned. I have zero problems if Pixar or anyone else wants to help me render my demo real because I helped them over the course of the year.

Open Source projects like Blender itself have the foundation that anyone can use them, as long as they play by the same rules as the little guys.

So ultimately letting the user set priority for what they want their computer to work on would be great!

Just another slant on the conversation...

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Message 6340 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 20:06:31 UTC - in response to Message 6123.  

This whole thing could be solved with a small tick box in the pref\'s page asking if you would like to render for profit.

Just mark the comercial sessions when their entered, and if you dont have the option, you wont get the WU.

Easy (I hope).

Just my $0.02


Well, easy only for the crunching user.
What about the users offering mirrors for free? The mirror software is completely another story. How could they manage to mirror only non-commercial stuff? Not as easy as it is in first view.

It could by easier to set up a second project: BURP.com for commercial sessions... ;-)

AndyK

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Message 6454 - Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 22:56:06 UTC - in response to Message 6340.  

It could by easier to set up a second project: BURP.com for commercial sessions... ;-)
AndyK

That\'s a very interesting idea -- but I noticed that some of the source code is not yet open-source. From what I can tell, all of the client-side code is released under the GPL/LGPL, but not the server-side code (BURP, not BOINC).

What sort of arrangement would need to be made in order to use this code for a commercial project?
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Message 6455 - Posted: 25 Jul 2007, 7:28:35 UTC

It\'s not open source (if that is the intent) yet, because it\'s still in the Alpha stage of development.

As has been discussed earlier, the use of BURP for commercial rendering probably won\'t happen until it is closer to the release phase.
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Message 6458 - Posted: 25 Jul 2007, 18:44:11 UTC - in response to Message 6455.  

It\'s not open source (if that is the intent) yet, because it\'s still in the Alpha stage of development.

As has been discussed earlier, the use of BURP for commercial rendering probably won\'t happen until it is closer to the release phase.

Right. My question boiled down to: If someone wanted to set up a test server *now* in order to evaluate the feasibility of a commercial BURP farm/grid, would it be possible to get permission to use the server-side software and help out with the development?
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Message 6460 - Posted: 25 Jul 2007, 23:34:39 UTC

I\'d recommend that you contact Janus directly with that proposal...
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Message boards : General talk : Rendering for profit