OCTREE Resolution!

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Message 6378 - Posted: 8 Jul 2007, 19:29:37 UTC

I noticed many complex sessions have a very low octree resolution, which was hurting the performance of the throughput ALOT.

I did a quick test with the 450 session file (although this is not the isolated case). At 64, the entire image takes (without motion blur) takes more than 20 hours to finish. But with an octree resolution of 512, the one frame only takes 30 minutes!

Please people, tweak your octree resolution before you submitt the scene. I am all for distributed rendering, but making us do \'useless\' calculations isn\'t fun. Not to mention Octree resolution has no effect on image quality.

janus, is it possible to automatically set the octree resolution to larger value for more complex scenes?
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Message 6380 - Posted: 8 Jul 2007, 20:10:52 UTC - in response to Message 6378.  

janus, is it possible to automatically set the octree resolution to larger value for more complex scenes?

No, because what defines \"complex\"? But since I became aware of this I\'ve had a few people resubmit sessions due to it.
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Message 6386 - Posted: 9 Jul 2007, 5:56:56 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jul 2007, 5:57:59 UTC

Anything with a polycount of 100k being \'large\', etc. That was just a suggestion, forget it if it\'s impossible to implement.

Sorry if I sounded like i was whining, I am just upset that projects that could have taken way less time to complete isn\'t optimized. I guess the fact that the default blender file that comes with blender 2.4 or later has an octree res of 128 will help a bit.

NO offense to the author of S450, it\'s a beautiful scene, and I am sure you wanted it render as fast as possible just like the rest of us.
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Message 6405 - Posted: 16 Jul 2007, 14:55:09 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2007, 19:28:09 UTC

However, the octree resolution issue is real.

One of the features of the soon-to-be automated session rejection system is that it should be able to detect silly octree settings and other performance related issues in sessions.
In a future version it may even utilize this information to automatically fix the relevant settings.
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Message 6428 - Posted: 19 Jul 2007, 19:22:24 UTC

awesome. Just wanted to say thank you Janus for all the work you\'ve put into BURP.
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Message 6451 - Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 10:12:48 UTC

me too. Great job done by Janus. Also the \"Current progress\" progress bar on main page is nice. I like it.

PS: when the developers (just Janus is active, if Iam not wrong) get bored about coding octree res issue, they could code some chceckpointing :-) (that is only one thing, why I stoped to render burp on my notebook. (I starts it, when another then S450 is begin rendered) I need restarts often :-/ )
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Message 6453 - Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 10:33:04 UTC - in response to Message 6451.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2007, 10:36:56 UTC

PS: when the developers (just Janus is active, if Iam not wrong) get bored about coding octree res issue, they could code some chceckpointing :-) (that is only one thing, why I stoped to render burp on my notebook. (I starts it, when another then S450 is begin rendered) I need restarts often :-/ )


This depends mostly on the Blender developers, not Janus. So go bug the Blender guys also ;-)


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Message 6462 - Posted: 27 Jul 2007, 18:41:37 UTC - in response to Message 6378.  

Warning uneducated/dumb question ahead:

Someone please explain OCTREE Resolution.

The Blender documentation is not such a big
help on putting forth the concept clearly.

(that was one thing i loved about Cinema 4D,
it would let you know what affect parameters
had on render-time versus quality)
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Message 6468 - Posted: 28 Jul 2007, 14:03:25 UTC

Octree resolution = Parts per frame

Most BURP sessions have their frames split up into multiple parts, to make WUs of a more consistent size. Theoretically, a session could be finished faster with a higher octree resolution, as WUs would be completed much faster, you would have less units aborted, slower computers would be more productive, etc... However, this means more work for the server, with more frames/parts to keep track of.
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Message 6469 - Posted: 28 Jul 2007, 20:04:05 UTC - in response to Message 6462.  

Warning uneducated/dumb question ahead:

Someone please explain OCTREE Resolution.


Lots of websites give a general short explanation, and here is one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octree


The Blender documentation is not such a big
help on putting forth the concept clearly.

(that was one thing i loved about Cinema 4D,
it would let you know what affect parameters
had on render-time versus quality)


Here are some memory / time benchmarks.

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-233/render-engine-features/
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Message 6470 - Posted: 29 Jul 2007, 5:01:38 UTC - in response to Message 6468.  

Very cool. thanks for the response.

next question...

why will the BURP project not accept my 5 machines?

i have five PPC Mac\'s that run blender beautifully...

they work on my farm w/ Dr. Queue...

...why won\'t BURP allow them on?
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Message 6471 - Posted: 29 Jul 2007, 5:07:21 UTC - in response to Message 6469.  

ok -

so wouldn\'t higher octree resolution help with Blender\'s woeful calculations made by it\'s boolean tools?

i used to use the boolean tools in c4d extensively to very quickly get to certain complex shapes... and in c4d they never seem\'d to have even the slightest error... blender\'s boolean calculations are scary-useless...

would higher octree resolution apply to helping with this?

or is this some sort of re-parameterization or other resolution issue?

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Message 6472 - Posted: 29 Jul 2007, 5:12:16 UTC

Currently, the BURP software is only supported on the Windows and Linux platforms. I believe this is just because Janus doesn\'t have a Mac; previously, there was a user who made a third-party Mac client for Intel, but he has since withdrawn his support, and said application doesn\'t work with the newest version of Blender.

I have a PPC Mac that I would like to have running for BURP as well. I recall seeing somewhere, that there were be more \"official\" platforms supported closer to the release stage, but until then it\'s up to the users to compile the software for other platforms. I understand this, as other platforms equals more variables to deal with in troubleshooting, but it would be nice to have the compatability. Hopefully, someone will come along who has this knowledge.
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Message 6473 - Posted: 29 Jul 2007, 5:47:58 UTC - in response to Message 6472.  

where is the source for the client?
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Message 6475 - Posted: 29 Jul 2007, 12:08:43 UTC - in response to Message 6468.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2007, 12:10:39 UTC

Octree resolution = Parts per frame

This is not the case - and a common misconception. The octree resolution is the parts per scene, not the parts per frame. It\'s a datastructure used to store scene information and it\'s used by the renderer to lookup this information when rendering. The larger the octree resolution, the faster the lookups (generally), but at the same time comes a larger memory requirement. At some point the benefit from using larger octrees tip over so that the memory management aspect becomes the major part of the work and that\'s where the performance starts falling again.
Determining the optimal octree setting is difficult, but when the scene is relatively simple and memory is abundant it\'s usually best to set the resolution as high as possible to get the best performance.
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Message 6610 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:31:39 UTC

I only found out about the octree resolution from this thread (I\'m a newbie with Blender). It is no big problem to optimize the octree resolution for each .blend file. You can just render a single frame at low resolution at different octree settings and the render time shows clearly which the optimal setting is (the shorter time of course, and of course it does not affect render quality in any way - it just affects the \"handling\" during rendertime). As far as I understand, the octree resolution has nothing to do with the image resolution (but instead with the 3D complexity of the scene), so rendering a frame at a low resolution would not distort the optimal setting.
Anyway, the default value of 128 seems to be good for most common scenes, as far as I have seen.
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Message boards : Number crunching : OCTREE Resolution!