Koei Project scene 1 part 1_shot 1

Koei Project scene 1 part 1_shot 1

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First shot for this project.
This is the first shot for this project.

For more info check out the project site and the project blog.

http://projectkoei.totodojo.com/
http://projectkoei.blogspot.com/

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Profile Janus
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Message 7935 - Posted: 21 Mar 2008, 18:55:48 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2008, 20:12:17 UTC

Ok, since Koei is the first non-test project to make use of BURP for rendering we can make little list of things for future projects to consider based on whatever mistakes are made during the rendering of this one.
Using a distributed renderfarm is not easy, it takes at least 5 mins of thinking to learn to use it right. Please take this as friendly advice rather than critique of your work.

For this first session here is a bunch of things that you should be aware about:


  • Sound:
    BURP does not render sound. Any soundfiles embedded in the session files will simply waste network resources. As an example this session contains 16.8MB of sound.
  • Filesize:
    Generally filesize is what limits the render speed on a publicly distributed farm. Thinking about what kind of textures you use and how they are compressed can save you a lot of time. This session contains 31.3MB worth of textures.
    As an example \"sword color.psd\" is a layered photoshop image which uses 7.5MB of space. If this image was saved as a single-layer PNG it would use only 3.9MB (full quality with compression set to 0) or 1MB (with compression set to 9 - still no noticable artifacts in the image). Keep a copy of the original somewhere else than in the .blend-file in case you decide to modify the texture later.
  • Performance:
    The thing that takes time is to start a session (because the big files need to be sent to people), once it is started it will finish almost immediately (because a lot of people will work on it simultaneously). When submitting sessions this is a good thing to keep in mind. One way to take advantage of this is to make the sessions as long as possible: whether you render 100 frames or 1000 frames doesn\'t really matter when the file is this big, it will take about the same amount of time. So instead of rendering in small bunches of 100 frames it is usually a better idea to render in big bunches of 1000\'s of frames.
  • Invisible data:
    If a file has textures and models etc. for a sword and the sword never appears on the screen in the frames that are rendered then those megabytes of data are simply wasted.
  • Naming and description:
    The name of the session \"scene 1 part 1_shot 1\" and the description \"First shot for this project.\" does not mention \"Koei\" or link to the project website. People will have a hard time finding the animation later or figuring out what it is all about.
  • Resolution:
    The resolution doesn\'t usually matter much. Whether you render in a 10x10 resolution or in HD is only going to affect the time it takes for each machine to render a frame. This is nothing compared to the time it takes to send the input file to the computers. In other words: Feel free to render in a high resolution if you like - people feel sad when they\'ve spent 3 hours downloading 100MB of scene data and it only takes 30 mins to render. However, you should try not to make workunits that use more than 3 hours to complete on a regular machine. Since you use SSS you will have to use full frames as workunits so you may not be able to render in HD within the 3 hour limit. If you are hitting the limit then maybe rendering the background in one pass and the character in another pass is the way to do it (if you do this then remember to remove the data which is not used for each pass to make the file smaller). Many movie related studios render each layer seperately and then colour-corrects them afterwards and mixes them together for the final result. Both Blender and BURP supports this.
  • A BURP bug:
    When you decide to use the sequencer or the compositor to include the rendered output from another scene in a scene you have to select 100x100 as the Xparts/Yparts setting in the render panel of each subscene before you save it. This is to work around a current bug in the BURP render system.



So basically the conclusion for this session is that it could have been a lot more compact and have included more frames - then it would have rendered faster per frame.

This is a learning experience for all of us, so keep up the good work!

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Message 7936 - Posted: 22 Mar 2008, 0:42:21 UTC - in response to Message 7935.

Sorry about that. I double checked the textures twice and made sure that they were all compressed PNG\'s (because I noticed the large file size.) But Go figure that I missed 1. Also I knew about the problems with the sequencer, and the audio files were there for animation, forgot to clean that out as well. hanks for pointing this out. It could have been a while before I realized that it was packing the audio as well:) And about the compositing stuff, we are still working out the work flow with that. Also thanks for the other details.

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Message 7937 - Posted: 22 Mar 2008, 6:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 7936.

Sorry about that. I double checked the textures twice and made sure that they were all compressed PNG\'s (because I noticed the large file size.) But Go figure that I missed 1.

I also find the internal overview in Blender slightly confusing. Instead I use \"unpack\" to figure out which textures are packed in the .blend-file. It turns out that there are at least 3 non-png images in this session\'s file.

Also thanks for the other details.

No problem. I accepted this session anyways so that we may compare the speed of this one with later, more compact, ones.

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Message 7938 - Posted: 22 Mar 2008, 18:51:15 UTC

I\'m really looking forward to see the remaining 5:56 minutes, it is looking really great :)

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Message 7944 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 8:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 7938.

It is looking really great :)

The water detail in the background is quite nice too.

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Message 7945 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 9:35:43 UTC

Really fine work, congrats!
I\'m astonished what is possible with Blender and want to see more of this session.

If I only had enough time to do the tutorials to finally learn it myself... ;-)
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Message 7946 - Posted: 23 Mar 2008, 11:01:15 UTC - in response to Message 7945.

Really fine work, congrats!
I\'m astonished what is possible with Blender and want to see more of this session.

If I only had enough time to do the tutorials to finally learn it myself... ;-)


Actually I\'ve learned much faster and much more, by not following the tutorials, since many of the tutorials is actually \"selfimplying\" a lot, that you really doesn\'t know about unless you are very experienced. Also by challenging your self, the only issue you can face is the RAM requirements and most of all to keep them low enough. Also if you face any troubles, though we really has no blender modeling or blender animating methods menu on these message boards, asking on the \"general talk\" category is useually also giving a lot of great answers.

@Janus... Yes the water is in fact really good looking. It was actually what impressed me the most, and of course the modeling of our human (if she is intended to be human) is also very impressing... maybe if they spread the word once they publish this animation at the festival, about BURP, we will begin to see more and more professional or semi-professional sessions submitted for rendering. The only thing I fear is that I might need an upgrade in RAM, to be able to help out on the really big and beautifull animations :)

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Message 7947 - Posted: 25 Mar 2008, 14:47:23 UTC

Janus, or who ever might know. I was trying to change the Xparts and Yparts in my file to 100x100 but whenever I try to put the value 100 in the Yparts it automatically changes it to 64. So it says for the X and Y parts 100x64. Will this be a problem?

Also I understand when it comes to deleting certian things in the enviroment, that aren\'t shown, will make the files size smaller. Because I am using ambient occlusion I have to keep some objects to maintain lighting consistency. But I understand why things, like the sword, just take up space and make no real difference in the overall raytracing of the enviroment.

The reason why I want to do this on a shot by shot basis is because most shots have a unique set of attributes when it comes to compositing. Where I can, I will try to combine shots.

Also about compositing. I was thinking doing one long shot rendering seperate layers would be good. But because of our deadline and man power, we have decided to try and do every shot completely composited on the first render. Doing this would prevent backtracking to frames that need work, when it comes to compositing, and its just less to keep track of.

Anyways please give me your thoughts on this.

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Message 7951 - Posted: 25 Mar 2008, 18:05:45 UTC - in response to Message 7947.
Last modified: 25 Mar 2008, 18:06:14 UTC

Janus, or who ever might know. I was trying to change the Xparts and Yparts in my file to 100x100 but whenever I try to put the value 100 in the Yparts it automatically changes it to 64. So it says for the X and Y parts 100x64. Will this be a problem?

That\'s fine - as long as they are both relatively high. Blender only tells about how far it is when it completes a block - so if this is set too low (like 4x4) the render may crash because the controller thinks that nothing is happening.

Also I understand when it comes to deleting certian things in the enviroment, that aren\'t shown, will make the files size smaller. Because I am using ambient occlusion I have to keep some objects to maintain lighting consistency.

That is fine as well. Another example is something that is outside the screen but is reflected in something in the screen area - such a thing obviously has to be included as well.

Also about compositing. I was thinking doing one long shot rendering seperate layers would be good. But because of our deadline and man power, we have decided to try and do every shot completely composited on the first render. Doing this would prevent backtracking to frames that need work, when it comes to compositing, and its just less to keep track of.

People have a lot of different opinions on this one. Personally I don\'t think one way is better/faster than the other - it\'s just a matter of finding out what suits you best and then sticking with that.

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Message 7958 - Posted: 25 Mar 2008, 21:43:57 UTC - in response to Message 7951.

Thanks again Janus. I will be sending in some more stuff soon.


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