Does memory limits participation?

Message boards : Number crunching : Does memory limits participation?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · Next

AuthorMessage
KEP

Send message
Joined: 12 Mar 06
Posts: 80
Credit: 53,305
RAC: 0
Message 4422 - Posted: 2 Jan 2007, 20:32:08 UTC

Hi

Anyone who will be able to tell me if the sessions requirering 1 Gb RAM or more, is actually availeable for me to help test once they get active to render? I\'m asking because my computer is limited at 1 Gb RAM, and wan\'t it make it useless if I participate in a rendering requirering 2 Gb Ram even though I\'ve 2+ Gb virtual memory?

Does anyone by the way know how to move 10 objects to the same position at once in stead of having to move these 10 objects one by one (if possible in blender)?

Regards!
ID: 4422 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Energiequant
Project donor

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 05
Posts: 89
Credit: 958
RAC: 0
Message 4423 - Posted: 3 Jan 2007, 3:17:11 UTC - in response to Message 4422.  
Last modified: 3 Jan 2007, 3:20:31 UTC

Sessions demanding more memory than your physically free won\'t get assigned to your computer. Virtual memory is NOT physical fast memory - virtual memory gets written onto your hard disk and although it may not make any noticeable difference in performance when \"normal\" applications run, you would notice an extreme effect on rendering. If you have 1GB RAM and 2GB Swap/Page storage and you exceed 1GB of memory, less accessed parts of your (completely filled) RAM get transferred to disk. If a program needs this part of memory again, it gets transferred back to RAM, maybe swapping with some other chunk of data. Since even most current hard drives are terribly slow compared to RAM, your CPU may be completely busy just doing swapping in worst case (called Thrashing). This usually happens when you need nearly every memory page at the same moment while your data never completely fits into your physical memory. Imagine rendering a picture: There\'s probably a lot of data to process over and over again and scattered across your hole memory (lights, reflections, mesh data, ...). During rendering process every piece of data may be needed in near time, so your system would be constantly swapping that data between physical and virtual memory.

BTW: To experience thrashing I recommend opening some very demanding applications at the same time and then switching between them while they perform different tasks (for example Adobe Acrobat, InDesign and Photoshop). Then notice how your hard drive starts to tick and your entire system slows down even drawing application windows on your screen.
ID: 4423 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4424 - Posted: 3 Jan 2007, 3:25:48 UTC - in response to Message 4423.  

BTW: To experience thrashing I recommend opening some very demanding applications at the same time and then switching between them while they perform different tasks (for example Adobe Acrobat, InDesign and Photoshop). Then notice how your hard drive starts to tick and your entire system slows down even drawing application windows on your screen.

I wonder who would want to intentionally experience it...
ID: 4424 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Energiequant
Project donor

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 05
Posts: 89
Credit: 958
RAC: 0
Message 4425 - Posted: 3 Jan 2007, 16:36:33 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jan 2007, 16:36:52 UTC

Nobody, but it\'s a nice example for those who think they have 3GB memory suitable for all kinds of data when only having 1GB RAM. ;)
ID: 4425 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4426 - Posted: 3 Jan 2007, 16:55:21 UTC

Well I have only 512MB of physical memory, and runs short. 7-zip uses 300MB when compressing in Ultra mode, when it finishes I see 297MB of physical ram free. Free memory looks like a good thing, but it\'s not. Usually free RAM means used swap. The more you have on RAM, the less you have on slow hard disk.
Now, if your used virtual memory is less than total physical ram, that\'s another thing ;)
ID: 4426 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
miketoth1001
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 27 Oct 06
Posts: 19
Credit: 18,608
RAC: 0
Message 4431 - Posted: 8 Jan 2007, 22:00:35 UTC

OK. I just noticed that there are some projects listed with anywhere from 1 GB to 2 Gb of memory. As I actually have 4-GB of RAM in my home machine, and most of the machines at work have between 4 to 16 GB of RAM, I think I meet the minimum requirement for these projects.

So, my question(s) is/are:

1) What about multiple cores. I have 4 CPUs in this one machine with 4-GB of RAM. If I D/L the 2-GB units, and each CPU tries to crunch, will I have a lot os swapfile I/O?

2) Should I change the # of CPUs to 2 or even 1?

3) I\'ve noticed that the swapfile, for Windows, should be 1.5 times the physical RAM, but it tops out at 4096 MB. So, will that cause any problems?

AdvTHANKSance
ID: 4431 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4432 - Posted: 8 Jan 2007, 22:10:31 UTC - in response to Message 4431.  

3) I\'ve noticed that the swapfile, for Windows, should be 1.5 times the physical RAM, but it tops out at 4096 MB. So, will that cause any problems?

You can\'t have more than 4GB virtual memory, unless you get a 64-bit CPU and OS. With 32-bit all you can get is 2^32 which is 4294967296 bytes.
ID: 4432 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Wizzo

Send message
Joined: 6 Sep 06
Posts: 14
Credit: 1,174,276
RAC: 0
Message 4433 - Posted: 9 Jan 2007, 0:47:56 UTC

If he has 4-16 gigs of ram, he does have a 64 bit os & chip... Are there any quad core chips that are not 64bit? All the AMD\'s I can think of (in the last 3 years or so) are 64bit.. most of the new intels are also..
ID: 4433 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4436 - Posted: 10 Jan 2007, 20:10:09 UTC

What the hell, people...

10/01/2007 17:04:50|BURP|Message from server: Your computer has only 535539712 bytes of memory; workunit requires 1331200 more bytes

so I need 1MB of RAM more to run this session??
ID: 4436 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile [B^S] DonaldXP

Send message
Joined: 20 Jun 05
Posts: 1
Credit: 13,570
RAC: 0
Message 4437 - Posted: 10 Jan 2007, 22:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 4436.  

What the hell, people...

10/01/2007 17:04:50|BURP|Message from server: Your computer has only 535539712 bytes of memory; workunit requires 1331200 more bytes

so I need 1MB of RAM more to run this session??



nope,you need (at least) 1 GB!!!
ID: 4437 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4438 - Posted: 10 Jan 2007, 23:06:54 UTC - in response to Message 4437.  
Last modified: 10 Jan 2007, 23:07:20 UTC

What the hell, people...

10/01/2007 17:04:50|BURP|Message from server: Your computer has only 535539712 bytes of memory; workunit requires 1331200 more bytes

so I need 1MB of RAM more to run this session??


nope,you need (at least) 1 GB!!!

Read the message, it says I have only 510MB, and I need 1MB more to run the session. The status page says this session needs 512MB.

edit: typo
ID: 4438 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Andrew Admire

Send message
Joined: 23 Mar 05
Posts: 108
Credit: 94,266
RAC: 0
Message 4439 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 7:57:12 UTC

When you add your project and it asks how much ram it will take. I just guessed. Will the system know how much you really need or does the uploader? If the uploader does, how will they know?
When life is to big to tackle, kick it in the shins.
ID: 4439 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Janus
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 04
Posts: 4572
Credit: 2,100,463
RAC: 8
Message 4440 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 9:24:54 UTC - in response to Message 4439.  

When you add your project and it asks how much ram it will take. I just guessed. Will the system know how much you really need or does the uploader? If the uploader does, how will they know?

It says so in the top of the Blender editor when pressing F12 to do a test render (which people hopefully do).
ID: 4440 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4442 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 15:35:54 UTC

The limits should be lowered 4MB or so, since BOINC doesn\'t get exactly 512MB on hardware detection (I think Windows still has that legacy \"missing 640K\"?).

Side note: BOINC 5.8.1 now enforces the limit set by the user. If an application starts using more than ( available ram * allowed percentage on preferences ), it will pause the application (and probably start another) until more ram is available.
ID: 4442 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile KSMarksPsych
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 12 Mar 06
Posts: 39
Credit: 1,002
RAC: 0
Message 4443 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 17:11:25 UTC - in response to Message 4442.  

Side note: BOINC 5.8.1 now enforces the limit set by the user. If an application starts using more than ( available ram * allowed percentage on preferences ), it will pause the application (and probably start another) until more ram is available.


yes it does (5.8.2 just released for Windows and Mac, I don\'t think Walt has posted the Linux build yet).

And if it goes over memory limits it downloads another WU.... Not that this is a BURP thing, but there you go.
ID: 4443 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Andrew Admire

Send message
Joined: 23 Mar 05
Posts: 108
Credit: 94,266
RAC: 0
Message 4452 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 20:52:28 UTC - in response to Message 4440.  

When you add your project and it asks how much ram it will take. I just guessed. Will the system know how much you really need or does the uploader? If the uploader does, how will they know?

It says so in the top of the Blender editor when pressing F12 to do a test render (which people hopefully do).


What if you are using 3DsMax or Maya? Will the system work if you compress the data using FBX? And how would you be able to tell the memory requirements from those Apps?
When life is to big to tackle, kick it in the shins.
ID: 4452 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
miketoth1001
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 27 Oct 06
Posts: 19
Credit: 18,608
RAC: 0
Message 4454 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 22:15:09 UTC - in response to Message 4443.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2007, 22:17:09 UTC

yes it does (5.8.2 just released for Windows and Mac, I don\'t think Walt has posted the Linux build yet).

And if it goes over memory limits it downloads another WU.... Not that this is a BURP thing, but there you go.


Is there any place that actually tells you what was changed/added to the new CCs? On the BOINC site, all I can find is the normal, generic stuff.

I\'m looking for something more like, Fixed that, found that bug and still working ob it, etc.

AdvTHANKSance

And, Janus. My original question still remains. If I have 4-GB or actual RAM, and I try to run the 2-GB WUs, should I change the # of CPUs from 4 to 2?
ID: 4454 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
PovAddict
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Apr 05
Posts: 347
Credit: 4,618
RAC: 0
Message 4456 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 22:30:23 UTC - in response to Message 4454.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2007, 22:31:00 UTC

yes it does (5.8.2 just released for Windows and Mac, I don\'t think Walt has posted the Linux build yet).

And if it goes over memory limits it downloads another WU.... Not that this is a BURP thing, but there you go.


Is there any place that actually tells you what was changed/added to the new CCs? On the BOINC site, all I can find is the normal, generic stuff.

I\'m looking for something more like, Fixed that, found that bug and still working ob it, etc.

We\'re just lurkers on the mailing lists :)

Full list of changes and archived notes for 2006.
ID: 4456 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile [SETI.USA]Tank_Master
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 6 May 05
Posts: 49
Credit: 185,131
RAC: 0
Message 4460 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 7:04:51 UTC

Thx PovAddict! I was looking for something like that earlyer... :P
ID: 4460 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Mike Dunn

Send message
Joined: 21 May 05
Posts: 22
Credit: 9,965
RAC: 0
Message 4464 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 15:45:34 UTC - in response to Message 4443.  

Side note: BOINC 5.8.1 now enforces the limit set by the user. If an application starts using more than ( available ram * allowed percentage on preferences ), it will pause the application (and probably start another) until more ram is available.


yes it does (5.8.2 just released for Windows and Mac, I don\'t think Walt has posted the Linux build yet).

And if it goes over memory limits it downloads another WU.... Not that this is a BURP thing, but there you go.

Er, unless I\'m missing something, BOINC is still at version 5.4.11, and any version above that is beta at best ...... so 5.8.2 is not a released version, but is still pre-release.
ID: 4464 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Does memory limits participation?